Timothy Quill on the Final Exit Network – Is He Lying Deliberately or Just Incompetent?

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It’s been dizzying trying to keep up with the onslaught of one-sided, sloppy, careless, misleading coverage of the Final Exit Network. It gets hard to know what to pick and where to begin.

Today, though, one article jumped out through the pile of slush masquerading as journalism. It isn’t the worst example of coverage, but it contains what is possibly the most blatantly false claim about the Final Exit Network (FEN) “activities” and how the laws in Oregon and Washington State affect those activities.

“Doctor faces assisted-suicide charge in Georgia” by Kevin B. O’Reilly shares several flaws common in much of the coverage of FEN. First, his information on the state of assisted suicide legislation isn’t current. Contrary to the information in the article, the bills in New Hampshire and Hawaii are dead for this year.

Second, he allows the FEN members to describe, unchallenged, what “assistance” consists of when they serve as “exit guides”:

Dr. Egbert, a retired Baltimore anesthesiologist, would not speak about the Georgia case. But he said the network advises its members on how to die peacefully using a helium gas tank and a plastic hood, both of which are easily accessible to nonphysicians. Volunteers, called “exit guides,” are present, but Dr. Egbert said the people seeking death must initiate the death procedure and can change their minds at any time.

There is no mention in O’Reilly’s article about the allegations made by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation that the “assistance” of FEN “exit guides” goes alarmingly beyond what Egbert claims. In fact, the undercover agent has alleged that he was told, while posing as a potential ‘client,’ that part of the “assistance” would entail having the “exit guide” hold his hands down to prevent him from tearing off the bag (which would be filled with helium). This allegation means that even if a person changed their mind, they would still end up dead.

But the real “prize” in this article isn’t something that Kevin O’Reilly wrote, but what assisted suicide advocate Timothy Quill had to say:

The Georgia investigation is “good for the [aid-in-dying] movement, in a strange way, because it’s symptomatic of how desperate people are, and we just have to say there’s got to be a better way to deal with these cases,” said Timothy E. Quill, MD, director of the University of Rochester Medical Center’s palliative care program in New York. “Where don’t you need the Final Exit Network? Oregon and Washington, because they have a forthright system.” (emphasis added.)

That’s a ludicrous statement. But don’t take my word for it. The Final Exit Network issued a press release on Nov. 5, 2008 celebrating the passage of legalized assisted suicide in Washington State. But the press release carried a strong caveat (note – per our standing policy, we will not link to the FEN website. We have ethical concerns about suicidal people finding information and “support” to kill themselves so easily. A concern that is obviously not shared by the editors of AMNews – a publication of the American Medical Association, since they do provide a link for readers.)

From the Final Exit Network press release:

Although, like Oregon’s “Death with Dignity Act,” I-1000 gives doctors the authority to prescribe a lethal dose of medications to terminally ill individuals under strict controls, it condemns to continued suffering as many as 40% of those who desperately want to end their life because of intolerable suffering but cannot under the law because their illness is not diagnosed as “terminal”.

“Unfortunately,” said Goodwin, “many patients do not meet I-1000’s strict criteria. Individuals with neurological illnesses such as Parkinson’s disease, Multiple Sclerosis, Muscular Dystrophy, Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (Lou Gehrig’s disease) and Alzheimer’s disease often lose the reason and will to live long before their disease qualifies as ‘terminal’.” Goodwin adds, “For these individuals, neither I-1000 nor the Oregon law go far enough. “That is why Final Exit Network pledges, until laws protect the right of every adult to a peaceful, dignified death, Final Exit Network will be there to support those who need relief from their suffering today!”

“The Network’s Exit Guide Program is available nationwide,” Goodwin said. “With the Network’s compassionate guidance and support, physically and mentally competent adults in all fifty states are free to exercise their last human right — the right to a peaceful, dignified death. “Final Exit Network is the only organization in the United States that will support individuals who are not “terminally ill” – 6 months or less to live – to hasten their deaths. No other organization in the US makes this commitment,” said Goodwin.

As the November press release by FEN makes clear, they are not satisfied at all with the limits – such as they are – in the legislation in Oregon and Washington State. They made it clear – in November – that passage of the law in Washington wouldn’t deter them from being active there and they strongly imply they have been active in Oregon.

This makes Tim Quill’s statement pure BS. There are only two possible explanations for the blatant misrepresentation of facts. Quill, a respected leader in the “right to die” movement, doesn’t bother to keep track of what different organizations such as FEN are doing and advocating. If that’s true, it certainly calls his “expertise” into question.

The other explanation is that he’s deliberately misleading the public by misstating the facts. That doesn’t speak well of him either.

So – we’re left with two possibilities to explain the statements by Timothy Quill. He’s either sloppy and/or incompetent – or he’s a liar.

I know which explanation I lean toward, since several fellow board members of his on the Death with Dignity National Center board of directors have a rich history in advocating expansive “eligibility” criteria for suicide assistance very similar to FEN’s. I’ll write about that another time. –Stephen Drake

Georgia NDY/Disability Activist on Fox5 Coverage in Atlanta – Final Exit Network

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Yesterday (March 18), Fox5 in Atlanta, GA aired a long (over 6 minutes) piece on the Final Exit Network on the 6:00 p.m. news. A similar piece, but edited to give more in-depth coverage of the FEN activists themselves, was aired at 11:00 p.m.

Although there are serious problems with the reporting overall, we’re happy to say that the NDY/disability rights perspective was well-represented by Rebecca Ramage-Tuttle. Rebecca is a long-time organizer/activist in both ADAPT and NDY. She is also the president and CEO of disABILITY LINK in Decatur, GA.

Below is a link to the page on Fox5 that carries the text version of the story. There are also video links on the page, along with a link to a poll asking “is assisted suicide unethical?” Please take the time to answer “yes.”

Fox 5 Special: Inside Final Exit Network

(Rebecca Ramage-Tuttle’s quotes highlighted in story text)

ATLANTA (MyFOX ATLANTA) – Some call assisted suicide an act of compassion, others call it criminal. Four members of the Georgia-based Final Exit Network were arrested in February for assisted suicide in the death of a Cumming cancer patient.

The Final Exit Network is a right to die advocacy group. The group’s president said members will only support certain people with incurable or intolerable conditions, but insisted it wasn’t assisted suicide.

At 26-years-old, one Chicago man suffers from an incurable neurological disorder known as Charcot Marie Tooth or CMT. Patients who suffer from the disorder slowly lose the use of their legs and feet. The patient’s nerves and muscles in the hands slowly degenerate causing fingers to contract permanently. CMT sufferers also undergo excruciating pain.

“Sometimes it’s a burning neurological pain like boiling hot water is running through my nerves,” Kurt, who asked that only his first name be used.

CMT is not fatal, but Kurt suffers from a rare form of the disease that causes severe respiratory problems which can make breathing feel more like suffocating.

Kurt said he didn’t want to grow old with the disease and that is why he made the decision to take his own life before CMT could leave him helpless and struggling to breathe.

In 2006, Kurt sought help from Final Exit Network and met retired geriatric scientist Rosalie Guttman. Guttman reviewed Kurt’s case and became his, what the organization called an exit guide.

“I tried to discourage him from ending his life anytime soon, because I perceived him to be, well, he’s young,” Guttman said.

Guttman said she told Kurt that medical advancements could help him in the future, but as his exit guide promised to be by his side when he chooses to end his life.

The Final Exit Network’s recommended method involves inhaling helium gas, while wearing a plastic hood called an exit mask.

“This is extremely quick, this is like 10 seconds and you’re unconscious,” said Dr. Jerry Dincin.

Dr. Dincin is a retired clinical psychologist and the president of the Final Exit Network.

“People who are in these extreme circumstances have the right, the human right, to end their lives when they feel they need to do it,” said Dr. Dincin.

The person who wishes to end their life is required by the organization to perform all of the tasks on their own, such has buying the helium, turning on the tank and applying the mask without assistance.

“After they repeatedly say to us, ‘I can’t stand living,’ we will be with them in their last moments. It’s only a compassionate act of love,” said Dr. Dincin.

Dr. Dincin said the Final Exit Network limits its services only to those with terminal, irreversible or intolerable health problems. The group’s president insisted exit guides only offered clients information and emotional support.

Dincin said what Guttman will one day offer Kurt is not assisted suicide.

“That’s all we want to do is be there with a person so they don’t die alone. Its swift, it’s painless, you do not feel asphyxiated,” Dr. Dincin said.

“How can putting a plastic bag over your head with no air not be a horrible way to die? I don’t buy it,” said Becky Rumage Tuttle.

Tuttle is a member of an advocacy group for people with disabilities, called Not Dead Yet.

Tuttle said groups like Final Exit Network do a disservice to disabled people who could benefit from therapy, medical advances or support groups.

“You’re not just standing back and saying, ‘I understand how you feel, it must be really tough right now,’ they’re saying, ‘Here’s a way out,'” said Tuttle.

Tuttle applauded the arrest of four Final Exit Network members in February on assisted suicide charges. The members are accused of helping 58-year-old John Celmer of Cumming take his own life in 2008.

“What options are they giving them if the sole purpose of their organization is to give the resources to end your life,” asked Tuttle.

“We ask them 10 times, we ask them 20 times, ‘Are you absolutely sure that you want to do this today ‘ and most of the time the people will say, ‘Shut up and let’s get to it,'” said Dr. Dincin.

Kurt said he wasn’t sure when he will end his life. The Chicago man said his mobility has gotten worse, which meant he may have to end his life before his respiratory troubles become intolerable. Kurt said the decision was his and his alone to make. Kurt also insisted his exit guide’s role has been clearly defined.

“To hold my hand, not to hold down my hand, but to hold my hand in comfort and support so that when I die, I don’t feel like I’m alone,” Kurt said.

Agents with the Georgia Bureau of Investigation said Final Exit Network members did much more than hold hands.

Legal documents from Celmer’s case allege group members helped write suicide notes before patients’ deaths and threw the helium tanks away after they died.

Final Exit Network members said they were only following wishes of the dying.

With a little trepidation (I’m not really good at this) here’s my attempt to provide a link to the video story, with filmed interview of Rebecca as the only voice opposed to FEN:

The Wreckage Suicide “Helpers” Leave Behind – A letter from a bereaved family member

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As I mentioned in my interview on Bax & O’Brien, there is no way in a free society to control information – and with rare obvious exceptions (think “how to make an atom bomb”), there shouldn’t be.

Most people are blissfully unaware, though, of just how many people out there are willing to provide the kind of pushes, prods and advice that will push someone who is considering suicide into someone who actually commits the act – and succeeds, thanks to that advice.

A little over a week ago, I was contacted by a woman whose sister committed suicide with the advice and encouragement of online “friends.” Part of her information and “encouragement” came from ASH – alt-suicide-holiday, a newsgroup that is notorious for urging suicidal people standing on a ledge to jump. She also bought her copy of “Final Exit” through the web – no doubt through Derek Humphry’s ERGO site or through the Final Exit Network.

It’s impossible to know just how many people she emailed or talked to – part of the detailed preparations she learned involved erasing all her emails and phone logs. All that was left were some references in a handwritten journal.

That’s enough intro. Below is a letter from Karen, which tells the story much better than I can. Anyone who is interested in talking to her can contact me for information on how to reach her. I won’t pass her contact info without her explicit permission and she’s understandably more comfortable with verifiable media inquiries. Hate mail is a reality for those who choose to engage in the public arena – and it’s an experience Karen would like to avoid. –Stephen Drake

On February 11, 2007, I was on my own at my new job for the first time. This should have been an exciting night for me. At about 7pm we had a flood emergency! If I thought that wasn’t exciting enough, at approximately 9pm I got a call from security! They asked me to come up to the emergency room. Working for a big hospital, I didn’t think anything of it. I guess I assumed they needed me for something. I was in for the shock of my life! There was a Lancaster Police Officer standing there. He introduced himself to me, and asked if my name was Karen (last name omitted). Right then and there I thought I was going to fall over! I asked if something happened to my daughter. I was shaking terribly. The officer asked me what my daughter’s name was. I told him “Bonnie (last name omitted)”. He shook his head “no”. My heart sank as I asked him if something happened to my little sister. Again, he asked her name. I replied “Lisa Bernstein”. He then changed my life forever by replying with a yes! He told me to sit down. I asked if my sister was alive. He said “no, she committed suicide in her apartment in Duchess County, New York! I’m so sorry Ms. (last name omitted)”! With that, a Pastor walked over to me. I don’t remember too much else from that night, except calling my older brother and sister to tell them.

Lisa was put up for adoption at birth, so I didn’t know her most of our lives. Growing up, I always dreamt about finding her, and how we would live happily ever after. We spent many years looking for her. We never dreamed we would find her, and lose her the way we did! My older sister, Beth, got a call on a Saturday. It was the day before Easter Sunday, 2003. We were finally going to meet our baby sister! My older brother, Richard, my older sister Beth, and myself, made plans for Lisa to take the bus from Queens, NY to Matawan, NJ. Beth and I picked her up at the bus station on Easter Sunday. I brought her a little purple bunny. Meeting her was the most fulfilling day of my life, other than the birth of my daughter! We spent two hours at Dunkin’ Donuts, chatting.. We also learned that Lisa had a sweet tooth! We then took her to Beth’s house to meet everyone else.

We all became close, fast! Lisa went through a rough time with depression throughout her life, and things were tough for her. After about 6 months, I convinced her to come to Pennsylvania, and live with me. I wanted to get her the best help I could, and I did! I found her doctors and therapists. She went on new medications. Some days were better than others. Lisa told me on more than one occasion that she was very fearful of death. That was the reason she was still here. She stayed in Pa for about two years, and then did what we all thought was the best thing for herself. In October of 2007, she got an apartment, in Duchess County, with her best friend that she grew up with. We were so happy for her, because she had said this was a great move for her. There were even some days she would tell me that the medications made her stop dwelling on death. She was feeling better! She even put in for a name change! She named herself after our deceased mother. Her name was Sandy. Our Aunt called her Sam, so Lisa decided to take the name “Sammi”. I called her “Sissy”..

After her death, I realized she moved in order to be away from her family, in order to plan her suicide! She got her guts up from a web site and book called “The Final Exit”! She also visited a site called “Ashers”. They all convinced her that she could take her life painlessly, and she did! The site told her verbatim, what to drink, what to eat, what meds to take, the position to sit in to avoid leaving a big mess, and finally, how to “hook” herself up to the tanks.

She was a brilliant girl, and followed those rules to the finest of detail! The Officer that found her said he had never seen such planning involved like this in his life! He said he spent hours with her, reading her journal aloud trying to make some kind of sense of it all! He couldn’t leave! He said it was so devastating to see her all hooked up to those tanks!

Her adoptive Aunt and I went to her apartment the following day. Her body was gone, but everything else was still there! The tanks, tubing, the plastic she covered her head with, the video rocker she sat in, empty TV dinner trays, Gatorade, duct tape, empty pill bottles, and so much more!

I remember the last time she called me. My friend answered the phone. I was lying down due to a bad headache. I didn’t come to the phone. Sissy said she would call back in a day or so, and to tell me she loved me. How I wish I came to the phone! Maybe I could have sensed something from her, but I didn’t! I know her death was not because I missed her call now. What I do know, is that these horrific animals told my baby sister that it was okay to die, and they would make it happen painlessly for her! Who the hell are they!? If they’re alive, how can they preach this!? Did they hook themselves up to tanks meant for blowing up birthday balloons! Did they turn on the tanks just long enough to feel like they were going to die!? I don’t get it! I’m so hurt and angry, I could spit fire! I know my sister was suffering from depression, but it wasn’t up to those animals to help her die! It was up to me and my family to do everything we could to help her heal, and live! They’re COWARDS, and they intentionally helped my sister die!

SHAME ON THEM!

Emotionally and grief stricken,

Karen (last name omitted)

Transcript of Bax & Obrien Interview on Final Exit Network

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This is the transcript of my appearance on the Bax & O’Brien radio show linked last Friday. This transcript would never have happened if I had been the one who had to do it.

To anyone who needs or prefers a written transcript over audio, you (and I) owe your thanks to Dawn Willis, an activist in the U.K.

Dawn has a great website and resource on the too-often ignored issue of bullying and it’s long-term effects on individuals. You can check it out at http://www.quinonostante.com/.

This transcript should be mostly accurate. Dawn left a few blanks where she wasn’t quite sure what was said. I filled it in as best I could. Any errors in this are undoubtedly mine – in failing to check carefully in filling in the blanks.

An additional note – the show had two hosts – but I couldn’t for the life of me tell them apart and still can’t. Dawn couldn’t either, so they are just identified in black type with my own responses in (I think) brown.

Without further introduction and explanation, here it is:

Intro: A little while ago now, I’m not sure how long ago Georgia Bureau of Investigation infiltrated a group called ‘The Final Exit Network’ and found out that this group would help people to facilitate their own suicides. Not only help them to put the plan together but would even be there when it happened and even hold down their hand, so hold down their arms so that the natural instinct to stop it wouldn’t take.

On the phones right now is Stephen Drake from notyetdead.org and they are opposed to assisted suicide, and he’s on the phones right now.

· Good Morning Stephen, how are you?

· “I’m fine thank you”

· Stephen let me understand your philosophy here, are you against to a person wanting to end their own life or are you against to the idea of other people assisting them with it”

· Yes, what we have a problem with is assistance, people commit suicide every day in this country , thousands of them every year, and people who are serious find ways to do this on their own. I think that one of the things you can look at here are the people who go to final exit network the fact they are unwilling to commit suicide unless they have people by them and comforting them means that that they already have some ambivalence . These aren’t terminally ill people, these were people with chronic disabilities and conditions.

· Well I don’t know if that matters, my personal opinion if you are a competent individual , whether you are terminally ill or not it’s your choice whether you want to end your life or not, but let me also ask you this, when you start talking about assisted suicide, are you opposed to the idea of somebody telling you how you can do it? Or are you opposed to the idea of somebody being there and actually participating in you doing it?

· Well I think there’s a real problem with spreading the information but we believe that there is very little you can do about that. The book Final Exit has been around for decades now with information on different ways to kill yourself, there’s internet groups devoted to that. The Assistance is the real problem and the Georgia case highlights that. As you said there are these allegations about holding people’s hands down, and y’know I don’t know how you distinguish that natural instinct to tear a bag off, and somebody who actually changed their mind, and the difference between working out whether somebody carried out what they wanted to and actually committing a murder.

· I thought I had a problem with your opinion but I guess don’t , I mean I certainly, like I said believe that a person should have the right to choose to end their own life but I certainly don’t think that anyone is entitled to be an active participant. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with telling somebody well ‘here’s how you do it and here’s what you need and this is where you get the stuff,’ but to actually be there and assist in it, I think that is a little bit different so,

· It’s very different, and if you believe in the first amendment, it’s very dangerous territory in terms of controlling information

· This is Stephen Drake from notdeadyet.org. As I understand it assisted suicide is illegal in all states except for Oregon and Washington, what is about their laws in those states that is different from anyone else

· Well they, theoretically limit eligibility for getting a prescription to enabling them to kill themselves with barbiturates, if they are expected to have six months or less to live, one thing which should be highlighted is that the people who go to Final Exit Network wouldn’t be eligible for assisted suicide in Oregon or Washington

· Yeah Oregon or Washington allows medical facilities and Doctors to help you to end your life but you have to be terminally ill

· Correct, expected to die within six months

· Right, now you, people should know Stephen that as you talk about this you are not only an advocate, but you yourself were born with a brain injury and your physician told your parents that you would be better off dead

· Correct, that’s correct the word he used was “vegetable” and when doctors use that word, and I hear stories like that with frequency whether its with an adult with a brain injury or a newborn what comes next is the discussion about warehousing and institutionalisation or disposal or neglect

· But I don’t know how that’s related to this because we’re not talking about taking someone else’s life we talking about taking your own life

· It’s interesting though because in the pro euthanasia movement they don’t separate them out real well and two the people right now who are acting as spokespersons for the Final Exit Network – people who haven’t been arrested – have both been active spokespersons in the past of decriminalising killing children with disabilities – killing without prosecution

· You see I’m not, the reason I brought it up, there is always going to be the moral question about the quality of life, the respect of life, and how that feeds into assisted suicide and I have a hard time reconciling y’know, what is right and what is wrong, I mean while much of my whole philosophy of life is that, life is important regardless of where it stands. If it were me and I were in constant pain and there was no medical way of improving I can see where you might thing well maybe I would be better off dead,………………

· And that should be fine if it’s your decision

· Clearly I think there’s a real moral implication in having an organisation come to your house and hold your hands down,

· But not if you solicit them, that’s the other problem I have here, these investigators infiltrated the Final Exit Network, they was an undercover investigator who went to them and said that he wanted to kill himself and they put forth together this whole plan, and then that’s how they made the arrests. That’s borderline entrapment.

· They didn’t go hunting for them, they did this at the request of the families of one of the people whose death is being investigated

· The family of a person who had originally used The Final Exit Network, the family members went to the investigators and asked them to investigate the organisation.

· That’s correct

· Because and it’s understandable but I don’t think its relevant because the surviving family members couldn’t come to grips with the idea that their loved one, for whatever reason, wanted to end his life so they are looking for somebody to blame

· Well the question is if he hadn’t found Final Exit Network, would he have committed suicide?

· Well he might or might not have but if he was a competent individual, a competent adult, that’s his business

· Sting operations are complex and inherently problematical. There are things we would never be able to get to the bottom of, including political bribery cases if we didn’t engage in them in some way.

· That’s true, sting operations

· Court cases , the courts sort out what is a fair sting operation and what’s not

· Ok, but as far as the one you’re talking about, the case you’re talking about I don’t care if you are married, if your parents are alive or you have adult children, there is nobody else who should be allowed to make the decision for a competent adult if they’ve decided they want to end their life. Their parents shouldn’t be able to step in and stop it, their spouse shouldn’t be able to, and their adult children shouldn’t be able to. It’s your choice.

· But then you have a problem deciding on who is and who is not a competent individual.

· No, not at all

· If they succeed in their bid how do you prove it?

· It’s not as simple as that due to existing statues – because the law already mandates law enforcement and healthcare providers to prevent a suicide, so this thing about anybody has the right, yeah they do, but there are also mental health protection laws, that aren’t criminal statutes but they require certain professionals to act in certain ways.

· Listen Stephen, just so you know where I’m coming from. I have a very close loved one who committed suicide, conversely I am also a certified suicide prevention person. But, and I understand that I would have a responsibility to try to prevent a suicide if I have to find myself in a place where one is about to take place, what I’m talking about is on a principalled level a person’s choice, this is not very different from abortion, a person’s choice to whether they themselves want to live or not, if they are a competent individual, and it’s not that hard to determine whether they are competent or not, if they had a job, if they had a household, if they had no signs of incompetence all the way up until the day they died then obviously they were competent to make that decision, and I don’t have a problem with that. Yes I would try to stop someone because I am supposed to but that doesn’t mean morally I’m objecting to it.

· Well the problem with drawing a line with abortion and you hear people say this, it’s like abortion is a right for all women. When people talk about not just prevention of suicide for some people but putting assistance into the mix they are not talking about all people who are serious about wanting to commit suicide, they are really just talking about old, ill, disabled people, people who are one of those or all three

· And I think that’s the bulk of people who commit suicide looking for assistance.

· Well no it’s not, there are a lot of people very serious, and in fact one of the cases under investigation is a woman who had no physical illnesses, but had long term emotional struggles

· And searched out Final Exit. OK but really you think the bulk of them, you see I think the majority of people who …….assistance are competent and not necessarily emotionally disturbed, addicted to substances or clinically depressed.

· You know neither of us has any information to go on, we have our opinions and beliefs, but the fact is we have no hard information. The only thing we can get on this is the word of the people from The Final Exit Network, who are going to colour everything, even if they are trying to be honest, it’s for their own self interest.

· What if The Final Exit Network people weren’t physically there holding the person’s hand down? Would you still have a problem with them?

· I think there’s still a problem determining how much assistance they are giving

· If they weren’t present at the suicide, I think that makes a difference, do you?

· Yes, if they are not present. That makes a big difference

· OK. Stephen Drake from notdeadyet.org, we appreciate the time, thank you

· Thank you

As I mentioned in my earlier post, this was a much better exchange than I am used to.

–Stephen Drake

Final Exit Network Discussion on Bax & O’Brien (Rock 102 – Springfield, MA)

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This morning, I participated in a discussion of the Final Exit Network arrests/investigations on the Bax & O’Brien show on Rock 102, broadcasting from Springfield, MA. I always approach live morning shows with a certain degree of apprehension, especially when dealing with two hosts. In the worst of cases, it can be a real experience of having been thoroughly piled-on by two pros at talking fast and holding the microphone.

This morning’s experience was a pleasant break from that tradition. It’s not that we agreed on everything, but both hosts were thoughtful and let me reply fully when challenged. I think the end result was a discussion worth listening to.

The link below is to an archived mp3 file of the broadcast. Within the next few days, I will post a transcript of the discussion, which lasts about ten minutes. Someone has volunteer to transcribe the show for me — and long-time readers know such a transcript might never happen at all if it was up to me to do the typing.

Link:

Debate on Assisted Suicide

So, please have a listen and see what you think. Personally, I think that Bax & O’Brien did a better job on this than the coverage I’ve listened to on NPR. Not just because they had me on the show, but they asked much better questions. –Stephen Drake